Leopard Gecko (Gwen): not eating well, not defecating after parasite treatment

[sly]

About 6 weeks ago I took her in because she vomited and we ran a fecal test which revealed pinworms. She was given a four week cycle of panacur. She vomited a few times while taking it, (last dose given 3 weeks ago at this point) and has vomited once or twice a week for the last two weeks. This is typically a few hours after eating, and happens if she eats more than one or two mealworms or more than one large cricket - switched to crickets after all this started because I heard they were easier to digest. The vet prescribed another 5 day .05ml series of panacur when another fecal came back clean, just in case it was still parasites. She hasn't pooped since I took in the fecal sample for testing which was at this point 9 days ago. It's possible she hasn't eaten enough since the same day I took in the fecal sample (May 1) she vomited the crickets she had eaten the night before. This is what she's eaten since and the days she got medicine:

May 4: Shed and ate the shed, dosed with .05 ml of panacur
May 5: 1 mid-large cricket, dosed with .05 ml of panacur
May 6: no food, dosed with .05 ml of panacur
May 7: 1 large cricket, dosed with .05 ml of panacur
May 8: 1 large cricket, dosed with .05 ml of panacur
May 9: no food

Yesterday I almost got her to eat, but she didn't like the butterworms or phoenix worms and was too stressed from all the poking in the cage to eat the cricket.

I'm also new to feeding crickets - do people just let them run around the cage for a while? I find myself having to take out cage hides and directions or she doesn't find them, and this will eventually stress her out too.

Should I be worried about her not pooping? I've tried a couple of warm baths as I've seen suggested here with no success. Oh, I should also mention that before we ran the second round of panacur, I switched vets (the old one told me the vomiting was 'normal' and she shouldn't eat more than 1 or 2 mealworms a day). The week before the second round of panacur the vet also did an xray to check for blockage and didn't see anything. Of course that doesn't mean there isn't something new.

I'm doing my best, but at a loss about what I should do (aside from call the vet again, but I don't want to keep stressing Gwen out with all the vet trips and the meds and the cage prodding :/ )

Sex female
- Age & Weight 9 months, 48 grams
- How long have you owned your leo 9 months
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend) friend's gecko had babies

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo every few days (well every day lately since I've had to medicate her)
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. - spending a lot of time in her moist hide
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. - positive test for parasites, followed by treatment, followed by negative follow up
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal) - normal
- When was the last time he/she went - 9 days ago
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on
See above

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size 29 gallon
- Type (ex. glass tank) tank
- Type of substrate reptile carpet and paper towel
- Hides, how many, what kind 2 dry (one hot side, one cool side), one humid in the middle
B) Heating
- Heat source UTH
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side) 92 hot side, 70-75 cool side
- Method of regulating heat source - dimmer on the UTH (too hot otherwise)
- What are you using to measure your temps temperature gun
- Do you have any lights (describe) just room lighting (heat lamp for winter, but not on currently since temps are getting up above 70 during the day)
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females) N/A
- Describe health, or previous problems

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much) mealworms were the staple, recently switched to crickets to see if vomiting was mealworm related - she used to eat 4-5 mealworms a day but now vomits if she's eating more than 1-2, she vomited after eating 2 crickets at once, but that was before the second round of panacur. I haven't tried feeding more than one cricket at a time since, I was going to work my way back up slowly on recommendation from the vet.
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect) combination hand fed, left in dish, crickets are left to run around cage
B) Supplements (describe how often)
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) - zoo med repti calcium without D3 left in tank, mixtures of 3 parts repti-calcium with 1 part zoo med reptivite dusted every other week. I backed way off on this over some original concern that the vitamins were making her vomit.
- What are you gut loading food with - mealworms with ground up oat/bran cereal, with grapes/veggie/fruit for moisture, crickets with fluker's cricket feed (same as the mealworms on the moisture bit)

 

[XoVictoryXo]

Are you able to ask your vet for a prescription to liquid nutrients? Im sorry I forget the name of the liquid food the vet can prescribe but Im sure he will be well aware of it. Otherwise you can use Reptaboost.
Panacur is very tough on the geckos digestion system. Did he also test for crypto?

 

[cricket4u]

It will be best to call the vet. Did the vet mention if she was well hydrated? Dehydration can cause vomiting and serious other problems if the gecko is being fed without hydration first. She may have tested positive for pinworms, however they are very common in leopard geckos and therefore may only be part of the problem. Your vet has to proceed with further diagnostics. As mentioned, she should also be tested for crypto. I also noticed you are using a dimmer for UTH, dimmers can not actually control the temp while the ambient temp is increasing. You need an actual thermostat which turns off the UTH once it reaches the desired temp. I would also keep grapes out of the gutload. Grapes can damage kidneys in cats in dogs and may have the same effects in reptiles.

 

[sly]

The vet didn't mention anything about dehydration and did not test for crypto (nor other bacteria/viruses). But proceeded with a second round of panacur which we just completed. She hasn't vomited since then, but also hasn't eaten much. I've been regulating the temperature by hand by adjusting the dimmer and comparing it to the output from the digital temp gun. I have an actual thermostat, one of the hydrostatic ones, but have been having a lot of difficulty getting the probe to stay anywhere useful (I'm considering stuffing it under the warm hide).

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

The vet didn't mention anything about dehydration and did not test for crypto (nor other bacteria/viruses). But proceeded with a second round of panacur which we just completed. She hasn't vomited since then, but also hasn't eaten much. I've been regulating the temperature by hand by adjusting the dimmer and comparing it to the output from the digital temp gun. I have an actual thermostat, one of the hydrostatic ones, but have been having a lot of difficulty getting the probe to stay anywhere useful (I'm considering stuffing it under the warm hide).

Placing the probe under the warm dry hide is a good idea .

 

[sly]

I should also mention that the original vet that did the parasite test (probably just for pinworms) said the load was high - this was also the same one that just figured she shouldn't eat more than 1-2 mealworms a day because she was vomiting after the first round of panacur had been completed. (which was why I switched vets since they didn't even want to do a follow up fecal). I have a call in to the vet and I'm waiting for a call back. Finding decent exotics vets in NM is extremely difficult.

 

[cricket4u]

Now that makes totally no sense. Why would a vet refuse to run another fecal when it brings in money for their practice?

Herp Vet Connection

 

[sly]

Thanks. I moved to one that's listed in ARAV (but not in the sheet above). I'll try the one in Corrales if my current one seems lost. The Albuquerque vets in Herp Vet Connection only see turtles and tortoises. Still waiting for a call back.

 

[cricket4u]

Thanks. I moved to one that's listed in ARAV (but not in the sheet above). I'll try the one in Corrales if my current one seems lost. The Albuquerque vets in Herp Vet Connection only see turtles and tortoises. Still waiting for a call back.

You're welcome. Hope the vet figures it out very soon. Post a picture of her and the enclosure if you can.

 

[sly]

Well the vet called back and said to keep trying warm soaks for a few more days (I've been doing them for the last couple) and if that doesn't work we can try an enema. I do have an appointment with the vet that has good reviews on Herp Vet Connection for Monday. I can put the higher res images online somewhere if needed.

 

[sly]

Here are another couple of shots of her belly, though the camera really wanted to take a picture of the background and it was hard to hold everything still with just me!

 

[cricket4u]

Does she spend a lot of time in her humidity hide?
How are you reading the air temp and with what type of thermometer?
How often were you dusting her food in the past? About how many insects a week? Light, medium or heavy dusting?
When was her last bowel movement? 9 days ago. Read it carefully this time.

 

[sly]

I was dusting her mealworms about every other feeding with the mixture (3 parts of the calcium mixed with one part of the reptivite). They're mealworms so the dusting was pretty light. I would leave them in a bowl for her with a bit of the oatmeal stuff they sit in. I travel a lot so sometimes this was I'd dust about 9 before I left and have someone come in and toss them 4-5 days later and put about 6 undusted in (that's why a tiny bit of their food was getting left with them in the bowl, in the hopes that they'd at least have some nutritional value). Before winter hit she was probably eating about 3-4 every other day out of her bowl. Once it got colder that got close to about 2-3. And then once she got sick, more like 1-2. More recently with the crickets dusted the first two feedings of them shake and bake style so quite a bit of it stuck (she kept one feeding down which was one cricket, and then threw up the two crickets -but I had also tried to dust the feeding of mealworms before that which she also partially threw up. So possible I overloaded her since the calcium and vitamins probably got absorbed, even though the food didn't). I haven't dusted anything since last Wednesday (the two she threw up), and she's eaten three crickets since then. Since winter (Octoberish) she has only been pooping about once a week in general, though her food intake and her pooping had picked up when it started getting a bit warmer just before she got sick. Even writing this down makes me realize I need a better regimen for food dusting....

 

[sly]

Oh and to the rest of the questions - I measure temperature (floor temperature) with a temperature gun (one of those industrial things you can order for $30-$40 from amazon with a little laser beam that you shoot at the point you want to take the temperature of). Air temperature and humidity I measure with the guages that you may or may not be able to see mounted between 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the enclosure.

She has been spending a lot of time in her humid hide over the last 2-3 days, not so much before that, mostly just for shedding. It's also where she tends to hide from me when I've poked around in her cage too much (and I was medicating her daily from sunday through wednesday of this past week).

 

[cricket4u]

I was dusting her mealworms about every other feeding with the mixture (3 parts of the calcium mixed with one part of the reptivite).

Why? Reptivite has double the calcium to phosphorus. You are also using Fluker's high calcium = too much calcium. It's possible that the regurgitation is due to all the calcium and it was just a coincidence that she had a high load of pinworms. Pinworms usually do not cause regurgitation like other parasites unless the gecko is also dehydrated. I suggest that you buy a digital thermometer and start monitoring the air temps. The thermometer you are using is very unreliable, especially placed on the glass. It will be best to buy one that comes with a probe. I would really take it easy on feeding for now, she's in no risk of starvation. These are the temps you want to aim for.

88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night.

 

[sly]

First off - yay she pooped! I'm going to run that over to the vet to get a fecal done for cyrpto and coccidia. So as far as the feeding goes - I'm only feeding the crickets the flukers (and I first tried crickets last week). So if I'm doing that and I'm also feeding mealworms (which are fed a multi-grain oat cereal all ground up), I shouldn't be dusting the crickets at all? Reading the care sheet I should be dusting the mealworms twice a week with reptivite and I do leave the pure calcium in the tank 24/7. I note that phoenix worms also should not be dusted, so would they and/or the crickets substitute for a dusted feeding? I'm trying to get some variety in her diet if she'll eat it. (And I've switched the grapes out of the gutload for carrots, just in case)

I have digital thermometers, putting them into the tank with the probes about 4" above the ground on both sides yields a fairly uniform temp of about 72 with the heat lamp on, and about 70 with it off. Using the probe to verify my laser temp gun on the spots under the warm dry hide they range from about 88 to 93. The ground temp (confirmed with the temperature gun and the ground probe is about 72 on the ground on the cool side of the tank).