Warm hide temperature help and general info

[Martellone]

Good morning everyone, about 20 days ago I adopted a leopard gecko, I think is a female. As a setup I opted for a 20 gallon wooden terrarium with a ceramic heating source, a 5% UVB lamp in the center and a PVC/linoleum bottom. The gecko seemed to be doing well right away, in fact she started eating without problems from the second day I brought her home. However, I wanted to ask you for some information. 1) With the CHE I can create an optimal gradient, 32°C on the warm side, 26.5°C in the center and 24 on the cold side. The warm hide, initially made of wood and now replaced with one made of stones to create a warm spot on the roof, does not heat up properly. On the basking point on the roof I easily get 32°C, but in the hide the temperature does not exceed 26-26,5.. is that okay and if she is cold does she climb onto the roof to warm up? The first few days every morning and around sunset she would climb onto the roof of the warm hide to bask, but now for almost 15 days she has always stayed in the humid hide on the cold side... she even stays there for more than a day without ever coming out. Is this normal? For example, yesterday she moved to sleep in the warm hide during the day and since yesterday evening she has been in the humid hide (I woke up a couple of times last night and saw that she was there). However, she continues to eat her 4-5 crickets or dubia a day regularly even if she only relieves herself every 4-5 days. As for behavior, she is still very shy. A couple of times she climbed onto my hand and often licks my fingers if I get close, but most of the time she looks at me and turns around and goes back to the hide. I imagine it takes time? thanks

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Welcome to Geckos Unlimited, Martellone!

It's important to know all these things when setting up for a leopard gecko.
1. What are the dimensions of your wooden enclosure: length x width x height?
2. DHPs (deep heat projectors) are superior to CHEs for backup heat at night. Backup night heat is only required when night temps plunge lower than 65*F (18.3*C). Basking bulbs are turned off at night.
3. For a basking bulb an Arcadia Solar Basking Floodlight (50 -100 watts) is ideal. The bulb you select should produce temps your leo needs without being dimmed much.
4. A Habistat Dimming Thermostat works best.
5. What brand & type is your 5% UVB lamp (Is it a compact fluorescent bulb or a linear UVB?)
6. Arcadia 12 inch linear ShadeDweller linear tube or similar Zoo Med 5% linear tube light is what you're looking for.
7. This linear UVB tube should only cover 1/3 to 1/2 the enclosure. That linear UVB should be set up over one side NOT in the middle. You make need some sort of brackets to hang it from the ceiling/roof.
8. Your basking HEAT bulb should be centered in the middle of your UVB tube & nearly touching the linear UVB tube.
9. Leopard geckos require 3 hides: warm dry hide, warm humid hide, & cool dry hide.
10. Slate heats up well. I recommended slate for your basking site. You could create a warm cave directly underneath the basking site.
11. What type thermometer are you using?
12. Which brand & type of supplements (multivitamins with or withOUT D3, calcium carbonate with D3, plain calcium carbonate) do you lightly dust your leo's bugs & worms with? How often? I've fully trusted Zoo Med supplements for over 15 years.
13. What do you feed your leo's bugs & worms prior to feeding them to her?
14. Decent ventilation holes ARE high up on the warm end & low on the cool end since hot air rises.

 

[Martellone]

Thank you.
77x35x33 cm. I don't have sufficient high to put in a DHP.
I already have the flood if I want, but doesn't it bother the gecko that the light is constantly turning on and off? And i think i don't have the minimum distance too. The dimming thermostat is the one I'm using with the CHE. For the UVB I'm using a 5.0 reptiplanet bulb. I have 3 burrows, and the warm one is made of stone. If the temperature in my house don't drop 18°C is ok to turn off heating?good to say.

 

[Martellone]

I have this..is not Arcadia but Is a flood type..i used this for my tort before buying a radiant heat panel

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Sorry for my delay. My message has been pending images. That's why I didn't share it until right now, 9 Jan 2025.

Kindly reply to each of my 14 questions as best you can. Copy & paste my list & then reply BELOW each number.

You need a dimming thermostat (like Habistat) attached to the basklng bulb, NOT an on/off thermostat. I recommend Habistat's Dimming thermostats.

*** As long as your night room temps drop no lower than 18.3*C (65*F), your leo won't require additional NIGHT heat.

 

[Martellone]

Sorry but it only loaded up to point 9, I just saw the rest no. I use the thermostat thermometer and two thermometers with probes. for calcium I use Reptical, for vitamins with d3 I don't remember now, but having the uvb light I thought of giving d3 only once a month. I "bread" the insects in calcium well before giving them and I do it at every meal. I feed the insects with carrots and leave a cap with calcium.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Please share exact details for each of my numbers: 1-by-1, if necessary. 1 number at a time with your reply will be fine with me.

Just lightly bread/dust the insects with supplements. That usually is plenty.

When you use appropriate UVB, you are correct: Only a backup dose of just calcium carbonate with D3 is recommended monthly! For that I would use Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3.

I highly recommend switching to Zoo Med supplements. Are they available in Italy?

Besides carrots for beta carotene, your insects need a complete diet. Sweet potatoes are a respected food source for bugs & worms. I've been grinding up Zoo Med's Natural ADULT Bearded Dragon Food that I feed the insects 365/24/7. There are many good insect diets out there.

*** You want a dimming thermostat, NOT an 'on/off' thermostat, for gradually dimming her basking heat bulb. An on/off thermostat shortens bulb life. It also could stress your leo out.
*** Please share an image of your particular Reptical multivitamin supplement. Do your leo's multivitamin contain vitamin D3? Please read the labels.
*** You mention a 5.0 reptiplanet bulb. Is it coiled like an ice cream cone? Please show me a picture. You need an Arcadia 12 inch long Shade Dweller or Zoo Med UVB linear tube source, NOT a compact fluorescent bulb. Accept NO substitutes for this. There are too many poor 'UVB' sources out there!

*** Multivitamins ONLY 1x per week.
*** IF your multivitamins don't contain calcium carbonate with D3, then additionally dust with that at a separate feeding per week or once per month when using acceptable UVB

 

[Martellone]

Ok, when I come back to home this evening i replay to all. Thsnk you

But for the question that she stay all day and night in the cold side in humid hide? Because in the first days she was more active. True that when I open the enclosure to give her insects she is very active and fast aniway, but all the time in humid hide i don't think is normal

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

What is the temperature INSIDE her cold humid hide?
The cool hide belongs on the cool end. The humid hide belongs more towards the warm end.
You've mentioned a UVB 5% Reptiplanet bulb. Is that a coiled bulb like an ice cream cone or a linear tube UVB? That belongs totally on the warm end, NOT in the middle.
Leopard geckos often stay hidden during days.
At night they come out of their hides.

I've been thinking alot about your enclosure. There are some things that really can't be fixed.
*** Ventilation: Is there high up ventilation on one end & low down ventilation on the opposite end? That's important to get a proper airflow from hot to cold.
*** Overall enclosure height of 33 cm (12.9 inches) is kinda short these days.
*** Please show me a picture of your 5.0 Reptiplanet bulb.

***** Might you consider a larger, taller, & front opening enclosure for your leo with TOP mesh ventilation? It's a lifetime commitment. You could use the current enclosure for a different gecko.

My leopard gecko passed away early July 2024. She was 19 years old! I had her most her life.

There's a woman in Germany (Esther Laue) who has a male leo that's literally 46 years old right now.

 

[Martellone]

I'm leaving out the first points that I've already written about.

4 It's not Habistat but it's still dimming
5 I'm attaching a photo
6 I'll take care of it. In fact, for my carbonaria I'm installing the Arcadia T5 6% UVB 39 watt kit. Since in Italy most breeders don't use UVB with leopards but integrate the D3 only with meals, I thought the light bulb would be enough.
9 The 3 hides are there, even though he's never used the hide in the center.
10 As shown in the photo, the slate is there
11 Dimming. I'm attaching a photo
12 I'm attaching a photo
14 There is forced ventilation, three holes on the bottom left (cold side), 3 holes on the top right (hot side). In the humid den, which is on the cold side, it's 25°C.

The multivitamin has both calcium and D3 (I wanted to buy it without D3 but unfortunately there was only this.
As long as I only have the UVB bulb, do you recommend instead of integrating the D3 once a month to do it every 1/2 weeks?

I know they live a lot. I'm not new to reptile world. I have a Red footed tortoise from 6 years stabulated very well due the great advice of guys of Toroiseforum. He live now in a very big enclosure with all parameters perfect and he stay very well.I'm new to gecko world.

She eat regularly but is it normal for her to poop every 5/6 days?

Last question: She only comes near me if I feed her, otherwise she looks at me from the hide but does not come out. What can I do to gain her trust and be able to handle her when necessary without scaring her? At the beginning she licked my hand a few times and even climbed up, then she stopped.

In the last few days she never comes out of the humid hide except to eat and every now and then I wake up at night and go to check and she is always there.

Thanks

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks so much for everything, BUT we aren't "there" yet.
We are having major difficulties communicating about your UVB coil bulb!!!
Your coil/compact fluorescent/ice cream shaped UVB 5% Reptiplanet BULB could be very dangerous for your leo.
Coil UVB is totally different than linear UVB (a straight) tube (a paper towel-like tube}.
There is absolutely NOTHING correct about coil UVB that anyone can 'fix'.

To put it mildly: Coil UVB sucks!
Your leo definitely requires a linear tube UVB:
Arcadia's 12 inch long ShadeDweller linear tube & fixture is what I recommend.

Otherwise I'd just forget about using UVB.

Early this morning I posted a message on a Facebook website. They have not replied yet. This Facebook website offers the very best reptile lighting advise in the world!
What I have shared above should be absolutely followed!

I'd like to see the ingredients of your multivitamin in English
Please switch to Zoo Med Reptivite multivitamins withOUT D3 for 1x weekly feedings. Reptivite comes with or withOUT D3. Usually use it withOUT D3 at 1 feeding per week. Then 1x per month use the Reptivite with D3. That will take care of the D3 backup dose. I hope you can get both kinds of Zoo Med Reptivite.
I'm not sure how to resolve the problem that you don't seem to have access to Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 for additional breading on bugs 1 time per week.

 

[Martellone]

I too find it very difficult since you told me about the Arcadia neon a few hours ago and it is not easy to make it "materialize" instantly at my home. Considering then that it is only sold in the USA.

Thank you so much for your availability, kind regards

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Please remove your UVB 5% Reptiplanet coil bulb while we get this sorted out.

I'll try to find out the exact name of the similar Zoo Med tube & fixture.
Both Arcadia & Zoo Med linears UVBs are recommended.

I'm sorry for repeating the Arcadia 12 inch ShadeDweller information. I did not know whather you saw it.

 

[Martellone]

I found it but is very very expensive and the only shop in italy that sell this kit has only the kit and don't neon replacement..in your opinion, is better if we abandon the idea of UVB and mount a LED strip just for the day/night cycle and consequently integrate the D3 as per your instructions more often? If possible, could you also answer the questions regarding the frequency of poop and behavior/trust?

Thank you

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi Martellone ~

1. I will keep you posted IF / WHEN I find out which alternate Zoo Med low level UVB linear tube is comparable. That Zoo Med linear UVB tube is very similar to Arcadia's 12 inch ShadeDweller.
2. You are correct. Please abandon your UVB 5% Reptiplanet coil BULB.
3. Make sure your leo gets + 1 feeding of a multivitamin with D3 (lightly breaded on ALL bugs or worms that feeding) per week.
4. + another feeding per week of bugs & worms ALL lightly breaded with Zoo Med's plain calcium carbonate (blue label) that you already have.
5. When D3 has already been consumed that week, plain calcium carbonate at the next feeding is metabolized as if it were vitamin D3.
6. Is your leo's wooden enclosure in a room with lots of daylight? That + light from your day time basking heat bulb should produce enough light for a day/night cycle. I don't think you'll need ANY extra LED light unless you are trying to grow plants.
7. Your leo's eagerness to eat each time you feed her is an EXCELLENT sign. She trusts you to have food or she would not run up to you. It sounds like she's gaining weight. <3
8. Often a leo is shy & does not come out of a hide during the day.
9. Don't worry about poop frequency UNLESS your leo looks bloated!

 

[Martellone]

Ok thank you very much.
The room is not very bright, I always keep the blind halfway down to prevent the sun from reaching the tortoise's enclosure. Now I came back from work and saw that she pooped... after 6 days. She is probably still "afraid" of us because she does her business exactly opposite the humid den. So today when we were not at home she moved. Now anyway she is back in the humid den.

But could the house lights in the evening disturb her or will she get used to it over time?

Thank you very much

 

[Martellone]

Tonight I took the humid hide out of the terrarium for a while and she explored everywhere like never before and above all I put my hand in 2 times and she climbed in both times.. I put the humid hide back in and she went in there and she doesn't move anymore.. I don't understand.

Could the attached lamp be an acceptable alternative? As for the distances indicated I'm okay with it. I know that is not like Arcadia neon, but a bad but acceptable substitute?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Leopard geckos love to feel safe.
Is it still 25*C (77*F) inside her cool humid hide on the cool end?


Your current attached screenshot shows a different coil bulb.
Coil bulb issues MAY be caused by NOT having enough enclosure height for proper use. In order to benefit both UVB coil bulbs & UVB linear tubes require the animal to be within a certain distance from your UVB bulb or tube.

I have received current information on the 12 inch Zoo Med linear tube that is similar to Arcadia's ShadeDweller.
I have also received fixture & distance information. HOWEVER, that UVB linear really requires an enclosure taller than 33 cm..

Another edit:
Have you been able to find a 365/24/7 good all-around food for your leo's bugs & worms?

 

[Martellone]

Ok, then we abandon the use of uvb and we will integrate the d3 with the food. I moved the humid hide more towards the center of the terrarium and now the probe detects 26.5 ° C. But I think that during the day it will rise a little more. Probably she really loves to be comfortable on the humid coconut fiber because even having changed the position of the hide she still goes there

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Way to go, Martellone!
Please check my reply right above this message.

I edited that reply MANY times!!!